The Top Ten Signs Of...
Posted: Sunday, April 4, 2010
10. There’s plenty of parking near the building for weekend services.
9. You can always get your favorite seat, or simply ask who is sitting in it to move.
8. The music is always familiar, and never too loud.
7. The pastor has been in everyone’s home, and knows everybody’s name.
6. You are never asked for money.
5. Phrases like, “We’ve never done it that way before,” “I’m not being faithless, just realistic,” “Why pray? God’s gonna do what God’s gonna do,” “If God wants His church to grow it will grow – we don’t have to do anything,” and “They really should do something about that” are common refrains.
4. You can be confident that whatever change there is will be incremental, insignificant, and will only happen with your direct input and approval.
3. There aren’t any of those left-leaning, evolution-believing, gay-marriage supporting, Harry Potter reading pagans daring to attend; just the pro-family, Christian-radio listening, fish-sticker wearing, big-Bible carrying types.
2. The Bible is seldom taught in ways that are uncomfortable or challenging.
1. It is always about you – getting fed, getting ministered to, with services evaluated by what you get out of it.
Yep, there you have it. The top ten signs of
...a dying church.
James Emery White
Wednesday, June 23, 2010
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Carpetbaggers and Wizard of Oz Pastoring?
Remember Dorthy and her friends in front of the Wizard of Oz? After retrieving the witches broom they return to the wizard ( after doing what he said) only to be told to come back tomorrow. If you were really great and powerful , you would keep your promises. Dorothy. Wizard " Do you presume to criticize the great oz , consider your self lucky. " Then the curtain is unveiled much to the horror of Oz. Only to reveal a pudgy ole man. I think this may be happening in churches across America today.
I never would have dream 20 years ago when i was called into ministry that churches one day would be pastored by never present "on screen only" preachers. I don't doubt that it works for some and can solve a few problems. I just don't know if it biblical or not. This phenomenon of on screen preaching came about in the 1990s ( probably by Seacoast church , Charleston south Carolina) when they went multi site, not by choice but unable to build the mega church structure needed. Due to code restrictions. Multi site churches is the equivalent to franchising a successful food or clothing store. There may be more than several hundred multi site churches in u.s. alone. and they are all the rage.
I do think its easier to plant a church out of an already established well ran , well financed church with excess leadership waiting in the wings. Versus planting a church with a non existent core group and asking a family to start a church out of nothing with no help or finances. If it works so well why don't we just franchise the top church in an area than multiply it across town as needed to help with seating. I've listened to Andy Stanley give the best explanation why it works for them. But as with any good idea, someone is going to copy and apply to there situation for the wrong reason or motive.
First lets consider this, the most popular famous American pastors are not only the ones with the biggest churches but they also have the richest congregations by design. They were all planted in the richest of areas in an urban area.(saddle back, north point, willow creek) So who ever collects the most money can get popular the easiest. I do realize the ability to raise funds is highly sought and praised in ministry today. If you don't think so just search for finance raising conferences that abound.
So here my question, could it be ego that makes one thinks that only his voice and image will lift a church plant to success. How can we preach discipleship and mentoring if we only think a select few posses the ability to preach. Yes you can have a campus pastor do the duties of ministry, but do the people really treat him as anything more than a support staff person and not "the man". If he does posses the gift of teaching, how long will you refrain from helping nurture that gift and keep his ministry in a stalemate. Its comes down to control issues for a pastor to always be in charge of the money and vision. and that's okay , just say it.
Like the Wizard of Oz, its easier to honor and respect someone you will never know or meet. Its easier to thinks the best of a pastors wife who you will never meet or get upset with or even disappointed in. You can keep them on a pedestal longer if there is no chance of meeting them. That's why some personalities and families( say a wife that does not share in the calling for the ministry) are better suited for evangelist ministry. I believe the Shepard style pastoring found in the Bible would have today's pastors being a part of the lives of those he does life with. That means attending funerals, births, ballgames, birthday parties and graduations of those we serve.
During the civil war, we had what you know as carpet baggers-One who comes to a place or organization with which they have no previous connection with the sole or primary aim of personal gain, especially political or financial gain; one who carpetbags.Many churches and denominations open us the census and find the fastest and wealthiest growing areas and plant churches there like you would market a McDonald's ( regardless of a personal calling to that area). I never would have imaged that we would invite people to a church where the pastor doesn't even attend. It's like you're saying " i love your city, I'm just too good to live there. Sounds like the politicians who want to run public education but their kids are too good to attend there. I don't disrespect this form of church planting , i just don't know if its the best long term solution for the great commission. A Shepherd knows well the condition of the flock and how can you do that if you live in another city or state? I do know that men who take advantage of others will go to extreme measures to do so and only the people can save themselves from being taken advantage of or mistreated. I see the issue of trust being taken to" far unhealthy measures "by some who only seek personal fame.
I never would have dream 20 years ago when i was called into ministry that churches one day would be pastored by never present "on screen only" preachers. I don't doubt that it works for some and can solve a few problems. I just don't know if it biblical or not. This phenomenon of on screen preaching came about in the 1990s ( probably by Seacoast church , Charleston south Carolina) when they went multi site, not by choice but unable to build the mega church structure needed. Due to code restrictions. Multi site churches is the equivalent to franchising a successful food or clothing store. There may be more than several hundred multi site churches in u.s. alone. and they are all the rage.
I do think its easier to plant a church out of an already established well ran , well financed church with excess leadership waiting in the wings. Versus planting a church with a non existent core group and asking a family to start a church out of nothing with no help or finances. If it works so well why don't we just franchise the top church in an area than multiply it across town as needed to help with seating. I've listened to Andy Stanley give the best explanation why it works for them. But as with any good idea, someone is going to copy and apply to there situation for the wrong reason or motive.
First lets consider this, the most popular famous American pastors are not only the ones with the biggest churches but they also have the richest congregations by design. They were all planted in the richest of areas in an urban area.(saddle back, north point, willow creek) So who ever collects the most money can get popular the easiest. I do realize the ability to raise funds is highly sought and praised in ministry today. If you don't think so just search for finance raising conferences that abound.
So here my question, could it be ego that makes one thinks that only his voice and image will lift a church plant to success. How can we preach discipleship and mentoring if we only think a select few posses the ability to preach. Yes you can have a campus pastor do the duties of ministry, but do the people really treat him as anything more than a support staff person and not "the man". If he does posses the gift of teaching, how long will you refrain from helping nurture that gift and keep his ministry in a stalemate. Its comes down to control issues for a pastor to always be in charge of the money and vision. and that's okay , just say it.
Like the Wizard of Oz, its easier to honor and respect someone you will never know or meet. Its easier to thinks the best of a pastors wife who you will never meet or get upset with or even disappointed in. You can keep them on a pedestal longer if there is no chance of meeting them. That's why some personalities and families( say a wife that does not share in the calling for the ministry) are better suited for evangelist ministry. I believe the Shepard style pastoring found in the Bible would have today's pastors being a part of the lives of those he does life with. That means attending funerals, births, ballgames, birthday parties and graduations of those we serve.
During the civil war, we had what you know as carpet baggers-One who comes to a place or organization with which they have no previous connection with the sole or primary aim of personal gain, especially political or financial gain; one who carpetbags.Many churches and denominations open us the census and find the fastest and wealthiest growing areas and plant churches there like you would market a McDonald's ( regardless of a personal calling to that area). I never would have imaged that we would invite people to a church where the pastor doesn't even attend. It's like you're saying " i love your city, I'm just too good to live there. Sounds like the politicians who want to run public education but their kids are too good to attend there. I don't disrespect this form of church planting , i just don't know if its the best long term solution for the great commission. A Shepherd knows well the condition of the flock and how can you do that if you live in another city or state? I do know that men who take advantage of others will go to extreme measures to do so and only the people can save themselves from being taken advantage of or mistreated. I see the issue of trust being taken to" far unhealthy measures "by some who only seek personal fame.
could the church do a better job of raising up men?
For far too long the American culture has allowed men to look at church as an unmasciline place to hang around. Church is seen as a place for moms, kids and elderly to hang out and be committed to. I believe the church is partly to blame. We have not encouraged men to model what is means to be a man in the household are to take an active role in the local church. Wanted to give some tips( some tongue and cheek) on how the church can improve in the raising up men.
1. Ditch some of the traditions that hurt the males role in church. I think the days of expecting or making priest or pastors to remain single and celibate needs to come to an end. It doesn't work and the scandals prove it. I would never send my son to a church where a denomination has a history of perversion toward children. nuff said.
2. Would get rid of the preachers in robes and altar boys caring candles. Is there a less masculine thing in culture today. My mother would not have been able to whoop me enough to wear a white rob and carry a candle on a stick and light candles in front of everyone. The boys that have to do this at traditional churches hate it. stop it. men wear suits. Your robe doesn't make you look smarter nor does it hide the fact that your sermons are boring and irrelevant. Robes should only be worn for formal weddings or by a judge.
3. Get the feminine men off the organ and choir. The church has too long promoted the clay aiken types for their musical ability. You can be good at playing an instrument and singing without being sissy. i.e. george strait. Southern Gospel music was ruined by feminine men. They would not confront the issue and the industry is dying as a result. Let our men worship leaders model what it means to worship without having to act like a woman.
4. Pastors must model what it is to be a man. Never had a problem here. Grew up playing football, baseball and wrestling in high school and college. Not a fan of soccer, sorry. I ride a Harley. Never got my nails and toes done, nor had my eyebrows done at the mall.
This note is written to be light hearted and comical. Yet I do realize many families deal with boys that struggle with their sexuality and identity. They are not born that way, but rather a product of an environment. But thank God they can be born again and defeat the sinful nature we are all born into. There is no sin that Christ can not help you overcome. Would say that most men who struggle with their identity or go "American league" do so as a result of being molested as children ( and that makes me furious against the sickos that do that to a child, personally think they should all be hung up) or no male presence in their life. PS. don't get your son a cat. dogs only.
1. Ditch some of the traditions that hurt the males role in church. I think the days of expecting or making priest or pastors to remain single and celibate needs to come to an end. It doesn't work and the scandals prove it. I would never send my son to a church where a denomination has a history of perversion toward children. nuff said.
2. Would get rid of the preachers in robes and altar boys caring candles. Is there a less masculine thing in culture today. My mother would not have been able to whoop me enough to wear a white rob and carry a candle on a stick and light candles in front of everyone. The boys that have to do this at traditional churches hate it. stop it. men wear suits. Your robe doesn't make you look smarter nor does it hide the fact that your sermons are boring and irrelevant. Robes should only be worn for formal weddings or by a judge.
3. Get the feminine men off the organ and choir. The church has too long promoted the clay aiken types for their musical ability. You can be good at playing an instrument and singing without being sissy. i.e. george strait. Southern Gospel music was ruined by feminine men. They would not confront the issue and the industry is dying as a result. Let our men worship leaders model what it means to worship without having to act like a woman.
4. Pastors must model what it is to be a man. Never had a problem here. Grew up playing football, baseball and wrestling in high school and college. Not a fan of soccer, sorry. I ride a Harley. Never got my nails and toes done, nor had my eyebrows done at the mall.
This note is written to be light hearted and comical. Yet I do realize many families deal with boys that struggle with their sexuality and identity. They are not born that way, but rather a product of an environment. But thank God they can be born again and defeat the sinful nature we are all born into. There is no sin that Christ can not help you overcome. Would say that most men who struggle with their identity or go "American league" do so as a result of being molested as children ( and that makes me furious against the sickos that do that to a child, personally think they should all be hung up) or no male presence in their life. PS. don't get your son a cat. dogs only.
Monday, June 14, 2010
high cost of wrong people in your life
if a parent can influnence your choice of friends from age 12 - 16 they can protect your future as an adult. if I can instruct you to avoid certain types of people during your dating years I can predict your rate of divorce or marriage longevity.
The harder it is to make you offended & the easier it is to make you content...the happier you'll be.
5-7The Call of Abram
1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
2 "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."
4 So Abram left, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him.
genesis 13:5-7 Lot, who was traveling with Abram, was also rich in sheep and cattle and tents. But the land couldn't support both of them; they had too many possessions. They couldn't both live there—quarrels broke out between Abram's shepherds and Lot's shepherds. 8-9 Abram said to Lot, "Let's not have fighting between us, between your shepherds and my shepherds. After all, we're family. Look around. Isn't there plenty of land out there? Let's separate. If you go left, I'll go right; if you go right, I'll go left."
10-11 Lot looked. He saw the whole plain of the Jordan spread out, well watered (this was before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah), like God's garden,
lot was selfish and chose he best part.
people are never loyal for what you did for them in the past, only what they believe you can do for them in the future. if you want to know the value of a relationship - take money out of the equation. prodigal son - give me what is mine.
question: why should we learn to evaluate relationships?
samson allowed one wrong relationship to ruin his annointing.
ever seen a boy crazy 13 yr old girl. facebook. whole self worth wrapped up in who she dates. values her boyfriends opinions over her parents. gets used abused and thrown out.
answer:when you protect our hearts, we protect our future.. leave some reserve. leave room of commitment, love , intimacy body.
who are wrong people?
1. those who birth doubt in your life. they destroy your dreams , hopes for a better life. intimidate you. 10 spies killed the vision of the people for 40 yrs
GREAT people make others feel great. Small people make others feel small
if you fail it will be due to someone you allowed to speak into your life.
your future is decided by who you choose to believe. choose someone good.
2. people of rebellion- those running from God, out of the will of God jonah was a run away preacher. about sink the whole ship. there life is chaotic, those bitter, angry, jealous, envious, the storm inside will multiply and explode outward. its never there fault.
how will you recognize them- unhappy , no joy, gossip, strife,
those that sin with you will eventually sin against you. when you agree with a rebel you will reap the same consequences.
3. someone who refuses to stay under authority.
we are all under some ones authority. those that constantly grumble against bosses, opiniated you can't help someone who thinks they know more than you. jezebel - married to a king, had nabeth killed so her husband could have his vineyard.
4. those bitter against a man of God. not a fan of preachers , love pastors. preach love preaching, pastors love people. bible school 10 % bologna chris hodges says 50% pastors shouldn't bein ministry due to wrong motives, umhealthy family life, unhealthy marriage, personal sin. many families that i love have almost been destroyed not by preachers. most pastors are 90 % good , have to beat down that 10% flesh.
start of our church some ran complaining against other pastors and other churches. good men and churches. don't know if i can make them happy. not 1 of them stayed. some people sheep some goats. some people are ungovernable.
parents: the greatest way to insure your kids will not remain in church when they get older is to critisize churches, leaders openly. seen husband drop out, kids get disinterested. the preacher you crucify today may be the only person God is using to reach your kids or husband.
have never had to ask someone to leave, have asked God to remove rebellious personalities to protect this house.
bible says go to that person if you someone has done you wrong. if they don't give a rip seen those , move on. protect your family.
4. those bitter against a man of God.some people can't learn from a mentor they can only learn from pain. somebody needs to help them but not you. women have a hard time accepting this.People respond to responsibility. But if you treat them as babies you'll have to diaper them the rest of your life.
5.people who don't take advice or seek help.
for every wrong person that leaves your life , God will send multiple good people to bless you.
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them. rick warren
When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left. The bible said that, "They came out from us that it might be made manifest that they were not for us. For had they been of us, no doubt they would have continued with us." [1 John 2:19]
The harder it is to make you offended & the easier it is to make you content...the happier you'll be.
5-7The Call of Abram
1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
2 "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."
4 So Abram left, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him.
genesis 13:5-7 Lot, who was traveling with Abram, was also rich in sheep and cattle and tents. But the land couldn't support both of them; they had too many possessions. They couldn't both live there—quarrels broke out between Abram's shepherds and Lot's shepherds. 8-9 Abram said to Lot, "Let's not have fighting between us, between your shepherds and my shepherds. After all, we're family. Look around. Isn't there plenty of land out there? Let's separate. If you go left, I'll go right; if you go right, I'll go left."
10-11 Lot looked. He saw the whole plain of the Jordan spread out, well watered (this was before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah), like God's garden,
lot was selfish and chose he best part.
people are never loyal for what you did for them in the past, only what they believe you can do for them in the future. if you want to know the value of a relationship - take money out of the equation. prodigal son - give me what is mine.
question: why should we learn to evaluate relationships?
samson allowed one wrong relationship to ruin his annointing.
ever seen a boy crazy 13 yr old girl. facebook. whole self worth wrapped up in who she dates. values her boyfriends opinions over her parents. gets used abused and thrown out.
answer:when you protect our hearts, we protect our future.. leave some reserve. leave room of commitment, love , intimacy body.
who are wrong people?
1. those who birth doubt in your life. they destroy your dreams , hopes for a better life. intimidate you. 10 spies killed the vision of the people for 40 yrs
GREAT people make others feel great. Small people make others feel small
if you fail it will be due to someone you allowed to speak into your life.
your future is decided by who you choose to believe. choose someone good.
2. people of rebellion- those running from God, out of the will of God jonah was a run away preacher. about sink the whole ship. there life is chaotic, those bitter, angry, jealous, envious, the storm inside will multiply and explode outward. its never there fault.
how will you recognize them- unhappy , no joy, gossip, strife,
those that sin with you will eventually sin against you. when you agree with a rebel you will reap the same consequences.
3. someone who refuses to stay under authority.
we are all under some ones authority. those that constantly grumble against bosses, opiniated you can't help someone who thinks they know more than you. jezebel - married to a king, had nabeth killed so her husband could have his vineyard.
4. those bitter against a man of God. not a fan of preachers , love pastors. preach love preaching, pastors love people. bible school 10 % bologna chris hodges says 50% pastors shouldn't bein ministry due to wrong motives, umhealthy family life, unhealthy marriage, personal sin. many families that i love have almost been destroyed not by preachers. most pastors are 90 % good , have to beat down that 10% flesh.
start of our church some ran complaining against other pastors and other churches. good men and churches. don't know if i can make them happy. not 1 of them stayed. some people sheep some goats. some people are ungovernable.
parents: the greatest way to insure your kids will not remain in church when they get older is to critisize churches, leaders openly. seen husband drop out, kids get disinterested. the preacher you crucify today may be the only person God is using to reach your kids or husband.
have never had to ask someone to leave, have asked God to remove rebellious personalities to protect this house.
bible says go to that person if you someone has done you wrong. if they don't give a rip seen those , move on. protect your family.
4. those bitter against a man of God.some people can't learn from a mentor they can only learn from pain. somebody needs to help them but not you. women have a hard time accepting this.People respond to responsibility. But if you treat them as babies you'll have to diaper them the rest of your life.
5.people who don't take advice or seek help.
for every wrong person that leaves your life , God will send multiple good people to bless you.
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them. rick warren
When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left. The bible said that, "They came out from us that it might be made manifest that they were not for us. For had they been of us, no doubt they would have continued with us." [1 John 2:19]
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